Utilitarian response

        We utitlitarians can indeed accept Fincke's account about pain and pleasure, as we do not take them as the be all no more than we take pleasure just as others claim but find pleasure in knowledge as Mill so notes.
        Yes, pleasure-pain are the indicators of that flourishing. We see the consequences of actions about how matters flourish, and pleasure-pain come to the fore as supplementing our view of the consequences,along with our evolved moral sense that we have to refine.
        So, let's not have the false dilemma! I thank him for adding to utilitarians!
       My utilitarianism  makes me a liberal who wants what Fincke  notes about helping others flourish.Pleasure and pain inform us how we can aid the poor to flourish better in that we see their hard work hardly supporting them, and we see their misery in other ways.
       Thankfully, Obama-care is starting to alleviate the pain of not having insurance. Mill helped liberalism to become more than against governmental intrusions into our liberties and rights but also to aid us with the Social Net.
      Hedonism as also Epicurus notes amounts to more than eat,drink  and be merry.
      Those who  would fault utilitarianism and other consequentialisms, depend on using consequences to defeat them, thereby indirectly and unwittingly endorsing them!